Post by William on Jun 29, 2022 18:23:24 GMT -5
Transponder: It only seems to me that appealing to an intelligent creator that either popped out of nowhere or always existed looks far more improbable than a nothing that can become the something that surely an intelligent creator would need to be made out of..
William: Conflating things which have always existed with things which have not, isn't logical and explains why it 'seems to you' the way that it does.
If everything has always existed and therefore could not have been created, then consciousness also never had a beginning.
Anyone declaring that the universe has always existed 'except for consciousness' has the lights on dim.
Transponder: No You are overlooking 'emergence' which is the bottom line of evolution.
William: You are forgetting that your complaint is about a Cosmic Mind existing and consequently responsible for shaping form [re objects in the universe] and evolution [re consciousness on this planet].
If you want to include the theory of emergence as the reason for human consciousness, then there is no practical reason to exclude the theory of emergence for Cosmic Consciousness.
_________________________________________________________________________
300622
Is There Really Such a Thing as Random?
What constitutes a measurement?
SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle
RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re
The Gist of The Message - Fair Dinkum - EQ - Some things are impossible to pin down precisely because of the nature of the reality being experienced - Eat - “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail” We go through together - Level - Acknowledge The Agreeable - "We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there."
AP= The Finer Details Hacking through the subconsciousness
[Part II]
10:40
GM: Panentheism:
"Proceed with causation, cautiously..."
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081322#p1081322
William: From the link;
GM: Truthful
"Ask and It Will Be Given"
"Keep an Eye On
Good Here There Evil"
Putting My Finger On It...
"Ouroboros
The naked truth"
"Intelligence With Wisdom
Ordinary"
It is not a thing to judge, but a thing to accept without judgement
Preternatural [beyond what is normal or natural.]
Behavioural adjustments
"Death
Like Every Seed That Followed"
"To Know
Everything Is Unique"
"The Generated Messages
Core emotion"
"Personal boundaries
[Raises Glass To A Toast]
Fierce
Psychology"
Confirmation bias:
"Post it"
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1080497#p1080497
William: From the link;
GM: Pure soul
Seduce
Ride Water
Runestone Symbol
William: Gebo ᚷ
GM: Get To Know It
Moon energy
What's The Problem?
Panspermia
Secret
Neurotransmitters
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083338#p1083338
William: From the link;
William: Time began and continues as a concept of the mind, re what is being observed through the nervous system [brain]. Time did not have a physical beginning, because it is not a physical thing. Time is a mental construct based upon sensory input.
Bust Nak: That's only our concept of time, what about time itself?
William: Show us this physical time so that we can answer your question.
Sometimes folk just conflate non physical things with physical things, which is why you are arguing that time is a physically real thing. Rather, time is a conceptionally real thing.
Bust Nak: Are you sure you are not the one conflating non physical concept of time with physical time?
William: Yes. It is there in my statements. Time is not a physically real thing. Time is a conceptionally real thing. No conflation there.
I am arguing that time is a conceptual thing, because I have been shown no evidence to the contrary. If you can show me evidence that time is a physical thing, I will be more than happy to drop the notion that time is a conceptual thing.
Bust Nak: Alternatively time has nothing to do with consciousness, and hence the presence of lack there of, has zero bearing on the process of Energy/QF interaction which will continue to go on as it has always gone on - eternally, in other words, time would tick on forever.
William: If consciousness is not there to conceptionally observe time 'tick on forever' how would anyone know? At what point would either Energy or the QF require such knowledge? The belief that 'time will tick on forever' derives from human concepts which are purely of the mind and do not exist as objects in the physical.
Far as I can ascertain, energy is like a Ghost as in we cannot see it. Unlike a ghost, we know it exists due to its invisible quality creating an effect [QF Ripple] and causing the reality [physical universe] to appear.
Energy is obviously an object of some kind as it is able to effect the QF, and so it must have some type of physical property in order to do that.
Bust Nak: Then why on Earth did you suggest that all objects would eventually disappear?
William: I made it clear enough that the objects being referred to were shapeform [Galaxies] brought into physical reality by the Energy interacting with an area of the QF.
I never suggested that Energy of the QF would cease to exist. I suggested that the shapeforms in this area would cease to exist IF the QF were a vast sphere and Energy was temporarily interacting with said area as it moved in relation with the QF.
Bust Nak: Energy could well be an object because it behaves as we observe objects behaving.
William: However, even if we could zoom out to a perspective where we could view the process from outside of the process, we may still only see the effect of Energy upon the QF, and no visible object at all - we might see the wake, but not the ship making the wake.
Bust Nak: Which of these perspective do you prefer?
William: I am not so sure that it matters. I like the mystery of a formless thing creating form-things and wonder if knowing what the Ship creating the Wake 'looks' like, would make the slightest bit of difference re the Wake [reality caused].
Bust Nak: It matters because you asked me a question and the answer depends on which perspective you are talking about.
William: Why should the perspective I am talking about matter in relation to the perspective you are answering from?
You are the one stating that time is physical. If it is, you should be able to point to it and say "that's what I'm talking about!"
GM: Life Principles of Sovereign Integral
ET and the notion of GODs
Within
Spiritual Connection
Functional Clusters
Hacking through the subconsciousness
Expression of Appreciation of Experience
A type of 'leg-up' but no more or less than that
Muon
Oneness of Wholeness
"Abiogenesis
Union With Divinity"
11:17
William: Conflating things which have always existed with things which have not, isn't logical and explains why it 'seems to you' the way that it does.
If everything has always existed and therefore could not have been created, then consciousness also never had a beginning.
Anyone declaring that the universe has always existed 'except for consciousness' has the lights on dim.
Transponder: No You are overlooking 'emergence' which is the bottom line of evolution.
William: You are forgetting that your complaint is about a Cosmic Mind existing and consequently responsible for shaping form [re objects in the universe] and evolution [re consciousness on this planet].
If you want to include the theory of emergence as the reason for human consciousness, then there is no practical reason to exclude the theory of emergence for Cosmic Consciousness.
_________________________________________________________________________
300622
Is There Really Such a Thing as Random?
What constitutes a measurement?
SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle
RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re
The Gist of The Message - Fair Dinkum - EQ - Some things are impossible to pin down precisely because of the nature of the reality being experienced - Eat - “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail” We go through together - Level - Acknowledge The Agreeable - "We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there."
AP= The Finer Details Hacking through the subconsciousness
[Part II]
10:40
GM: Panentheism:
"Proceed with causation, cautiously..."
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081322#p1081322
William: From the link;
Diogenes: All I can do is to put myself in the position of a god as defined by the Abrahamic religions.
William: This is a mistake often made by non-theists, getting them to focus upon one idea of GOD as if that is the only one available. It becomes a favorite target - acting in much the same way as a strawman argument is designed to act as - a distraction. Straw-battling.
William: This is a mistake often made by non-theists, getting them to focus upon one idea of GOD as if that is the only one available. It becomes a favorite target - acting in much the same way as a strawman argument is designed to act as - a distraction. Straw-battling.
GM: Truthful
"Ask and It Will Be Given"
"Keep an Eye On
Good Here There Evil"
Putting My Finger On It...
"Ouroboros
The naked truth"
"Intelligence With Wisdom
Ordinary"
It is not a thing to judge, but a thing to accept without judgement
Preternatural [beyond what is normal or natural.]
Behavioural adjustments
"Death
Like Every Seed That Followed"
"To Know
Everything Is Unique"
"The Generated Messages
Core emotion"
"Personal boundaries
[Raises Glass To A Toast]
Fierce
Psychology"
Confirmation bias:
"Post it"
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1080497#p1080497
William: From the link;
Rose: Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?
Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.
William: The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.
Why would anyone wish to do that?
Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.
William: The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.
The name Ouija is a combination of the French “oui” and German “ja,” both meaning “yes.” It was patented in 1892 but primitive models date back to ancient times. Talking boards, also known as spirit boards, gained popularity in the United States during the late 1860s as mournful users attempted to communicate with the Civil War dead.{SOURCE}
GM: Pure soul
Seduce
Ride Water
Runestone Symbol
William: Gebo ᚷ
Lisa: Gebo is the rune that helps us find balance in giving and receiving. It shows equal parts acceptance, trust and care. There are no reversals for this rune but depending on other runes present, it can highlight inequality and situation where one person is a giver and another a taker. Spiritually, it is a rune of trusting that all our needs are met.
In relationship readings, Gebo is a welcome rune as it usually indicates reciprocity and joy in coming together.
The shape of this rune is harmonious and shows both lines leaning in on each other equally, signifying healthy inter-dependence and an even flow of give and take.
The X-shape is also an ‘X marks the spot’ and in this case, we are talking about the sweet spot where everybody is happy with how things are because everybody is having their needs met.
Gebo Prayer:
Dear Mother-Father God, Thank you that it is perfectly alright to trust that all is well here and now. Please help me attract even more harmonious relationships and circumstances into my life. Thank you that the divine exchange taking place in the Cosmos is reflected in my own being in harmonious ways. Amen and so it is! {SOURCE}
In relationship readings, Gebo is a welcome rune as it usually indicates reciprocity and joy in coming together.
The shape of this rune is harmonious and shows both lines leaning in on each other equally, signifying healthy inter-dependence and an even flow of give and take.
The X-shape is also an ‘X marks the spot’ and in this case, we are talking about the sweet spot where everybody is happy with how things are because everybody is having their needs met.
Gebo Prayer:
Dear Mother-Father God, Thank you that it is perfectly alright to trust that all is well here and now. Please help me attract even more harmonious relationships and circumstances into my life. Thank you that the divine exchange taking place in the Cosmos is reflected in my own being in harmonious ways. Amen and so it is! {SOURCE}
GM: Get To Know It
Moon energy
What's The Problem?
Panspermia
Secret
Neurotransmitters
debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083338#p1083338
William: From the link;
William: Time began and continues as a concept of the mind, re what is being observed through the nervous system [brain]. Time did not have a physical beginning, because it is not a physical thing. Time is a mental construct based upon sensory input.
Bust Nak: That's only our concept of time, what about time itself?
William: Show us this physical time so that we can answer your question.
Sometimes folk just conflate non physical things with physical things, which is why you are arguing that time is a physically real thing. Rather, time is a conceptionally real thing.
Bust Nak: Are you sure you are not the one conflating non physical concept of time with physical time?
William: Yes. It is there in my statements. Time is not a physically real thing. Time is a conceptionally real thing. No conflation there.
I am arguing that time is a conceptual thing, because I have been shown no evidence to the contrary. If you can show me evidence that time is a physical thing, I will be more than happy to drop the notion that time is a conceptual thing.
Bust Nak: Alternatively time has nothing to do with consciousness, and hence the presence of lack there of, has zero bearing on the process of Energy/QF interaction which will continue to go on as it has always gone on - eternally, in other words, time would tick on forever.
William: If consciousness is not there to conceptionally observe time 'tick on forever' how would anyone know? At what point would either Energy or the QF require such knowledge? The belief that 'time will tick on forever' derives from human concepts which are purely of the mind and do not exist as objects in the physical.
Far as I can ascertain, energy is like a Ghost as in we cannot see it. Unlike a ghost, we know it exists due to its invisible quality creating an effect [QF Ripple] and causing the reality [physical universe] to appear.
Energy is obviously an object of some kind as it is able to effect the QF, and so it must have some type of physical property in order to do that.
Bust Nak: Then why on Earth did you suggest that all objects would eventually disappear?
William: I made it clear enough that the objects being referred to were shapeform [Galaxies] brought into physical reality by the Energy interacting with an area of the QF.
I never suggested that Energy of the QF would cease to exist. I suggested that the shapeforms in this area would cease to exist IF the QF were a vast sphere and Energy was temporarily interacting with said area as it moved in relation with the QF.
Bust Nak: Energy could well be an object because it behaves as we observe objects behaving.
William: However, even if we could zoom out to a perspective where we could view the process from outside of the process, we may still only see the effect of Energy upon the QF, and no visible object at all - we might see the wake, but not the ship making the wake.
Bust Nak: Which of these perspective do you prefer?
William: I am not so sure that it matters. I like the mystery of a formless thing creating form-things and wonder if knowing what the Ship creating the Wake 'looks' like, would make the slightest bit of difference re the Wake [reality caused].
Bust Nak: It matters because you asked me a question and the answer depends on which perspective you are talking about.
William: Why should the perspective I am talking about matter in relation to the perspective you are answering from?
You are the one stating that time is physical. If it is, you should be able to point to it and say "that's what I'm talking about!"
GM: Life Principles of Sovereign Integral
ET and the notion of GODs
Within
Spiritual Connection
Functional Clusters
Hacking through the subconsciousness
Expression of Appreciation of Experience
A type of 'leg-up' but no more or less than that
Muon
Oneness of Wholeness
"Abiogenesis
Union With Divinity"
11:17